By: Marc Gaffney & Kirk Windstein
When thinking about the power of the
riff, a few names come to mind; however, one name is constantly emerging and
emerging for all the right reasons. Strength in the chording structures, sheer
power of the down tuned movement with the gravitas to float a packed room like
a trampoline funneling turbo fuel and the kinetic mass to make a roomful of fans
pogo up and down as if their bodies were filled with youthful follicles of rock
filled roll. The name is Windstein, Kirk Windstein.
You get lucky every once in a while
to converse with Legends in the rock world. In terms of being a legend, we are
not just admiring the skill of the player, thus, the legacy of work, their
commitment to their trade and above all, the admiration fans and other musicians
share regarding this New Orleans riff slinger. This aficionado of the riff is
so incredibly worthy and after having a chance to speak with Kirk, you know
exactly why the saints have come marching in,
This is a man that has given his
music to the world and thus the world is indeed a better place for it. You at
times hear about certain artists acting one way or another. Folks, this artist
has always been spoken about with a smile and a reverence that is so respected,
being able to chat with him was a true highlight.
So, sit back, relax, grab a brew or
a case and enjoy the discussion I had with the New Orleans Excalibur of the almighty
riff, Kirk Windstein at the end of Jan 2016.
SL: Thanks so much for taking the time to speak
with me.
Kirk: Thank you
SL: So you were on the road with High on Fire how was that
tour?
Kirk: It was good man,
probably the shortest tour I had ever done. It was great, High on Fire
was banging and we get along really well so it was a great tour.
SL: So I know last time we spoke you were starting
to write for the new album, are you straight into writing now?
Kirk: Actually riff
wise, what we are doing, a really good friend of mine, Mapp, we call him
muscles because he weighs about 150 pounds, he started off doing front of house
for Crowbar and we were on tour with Black Label’ back in 2000 and they ended up hiring him, to
make a long story short, he is top of the line front of house, arena sound guy,
he is on tour now with Papa Roach, he did Stone Temple Pilots, Evanescence, Paramore, a lot of the pop bands. He is actually demoing
everything for us. We are actually working on song 6 in terms of demoing. As
far as riffs, we have more written. Me and Mapp have been working sometimes
before practice and after band rehearsal putting the material together.
We
are looking for 10 full songs and probably do some kind of mellow segue way
piece or whatever, we normally stick something like that on the record, as far
as 10 full songs, honestly I to 2 weeks we will probably 8 or 9 even, we are
really, really close to being in the studio. I need to get with the engineer
and set an actual date for us to go in. I mean we are super pumped, we are kind
of living and breathing the record, the writing, the riffs, so that is where
our heads are at now, it is a great feeling.
SL: Lyrically, has this been an easy record to
write?
Kirk: Actually I have not started on the lyrics, I
am kind of weird with it. Other than, what happened was, during the recording
of the self-titled record, Crowbar “Crowbar”, Phil produced it, Anselmo, I didn’t have
all the lyrics and I was freaking out and he was like, “Man, I write a lot of my lyrics right on the spot.” He kind of
taught me how to do that. Not to be overwhelmed. Honestly, he really helped me
write about 30 to 40 percent of the lyrics for the Crowbar “Crowbar” record. We would be driving to
the studio and we would sit in the backseat together with a notebook and work
on the shit and he got me to not really put such stress on myself and make it a
last minute thing as chief writer and chief arranger, once we get all the riffs
written and the arrangements taken care of, then I can start working and
getting into it lyric wise.
SL: Do you find that, in terms of what you write
about, is it how you are feeling, the environment you are in; does it ever sway
one way or the other or is it you write about whatever hits you at the moment
and you go with it?
Kirk: I kind of just,
whatever hits me; what I do is I will listen to the song, and first I come up
with a phrasing idea, maybe a melody, to myself I am just singing, no words,
just fake words over and over and I am trying to figure out a melody and when I
feel good about where I am at with that, then I just start writing words and
put down whatever the hell comes to my head honestly. I mean some of them are written
in 5 minutes.
It
doesn’t mean that I don’t put thought into it, but when I am in that zone and
in the right frame of mind it just comes out, same thing with the riffs,
sometimes when I pick up the guitar and if I don’t have something going on in
the first 10 minutes, I put the guitar down and try it later. It either comes
to you; trying to force it just doesn’t work. That is what I have found, at least
for me and I take the same approach lyric wise. I mean since we do have this
proper, I mean it is still really kind of rough, the playing is rough cuz we
are all still trying to learn the songs, but it is a great reference to have a
recording of the stuff, so now I feel like I am getting a head start. If I have
2 or 3 songs written before we get into the studio lyrically then to me I am
ahead of the game. So that is where I am at.
Really
we are just zooming along, the last 2 weeks have gotten 5 down in the last 2
weeks and then we will have another one down on Tuesday which is already
written and arranged so that will be 6 that we have demoed and then we only
have 4 to go and we kind of made the choice, the thing is these songs are
averaging in the 5 minute range, our songs are a little longer, especially if
it is a slow one, but a lot of the times, some of our songs are really short
but recently it just seems like the songs, I don’t realize how long they are.
When I am playing live I don’t realize the song is over 5 minutes long. If it
flows, right! It doesn’t seem like it is a long song. Our stuff tends to be a
little longer. You know Jamie co manages the band and I have talked to him
about this a lot. I am like, “Dude you
are in Hatebreed you
are in a hardcore band and you guys have 2.5 or 3 minute songs and we don’t.”
If we have 5 minute songs and 10 killer ones you know, that is our record.
I
look back to when Pantera did “Re Inventing the Steel” and I remember
it is a 10 song record, I remember Phil saying that at that time which was
2000, I mean that was 16 years ago and at that time everyone used up every
available second of space on the cd format which was like 70 minutes and you had
bands putting out 16 17 songs on records and I mean, honestly unless you take a
really long time to do it, it is very difficult to have 15 songs that are all
killer. So to us, I mean growing up in the 70s and even in the early 80s, bands
put out records with 8 songs on them, it depends on the type of band, but bands
like Van Halen, those records were 30-35 minutes.
Of course we will deliver a 40 -45 minute record, but you know for us, we can
do that.
You
know with 10 solid songs, we actually really enjoy doing, it actually kind of
started with “Oddfellows Rest”, we
didn’t do anything on “Equilibrium”,
we always had one song that was a little different so I am sure we will come up
with one of those as they are really fun to create you know, in the studio
actually, so there is no pressure on that, if we have 10 songs that are the
meat and potatoes of the record down.
SL: I also think that in this day and society, no
one wants to sit down and listen to 14 songs.
Kirk: I
agree 100 percent. A lot of people love to look at something, like with Itunes,
they may not purchase the whole record but they may have 3 or 4 songs that they
really like and just grab those songs for 99 cents each and put them on their
computer, phone or whatever. That is just the way people have gotten. To me, I
still think of, even though it is in CD format, although we do put it out on
vinyl, which is great, I am really excited that vinyl has made somewhat of a
comeback, but I still think of it as an album. Side A and Side B, listen to it
from front to back. You know I think you are absolutely correct, people’s
attention spans these days, it is difficult you know for someone to sit down
and listen to an hours-worth of music on an album.
SL: That is why it is so smart to do 10 burning
songs. You just come with a 1-7 combination a la Cus D’Amato and you knock them
out by the 6th tune. Our new album is 8 tunes and about 40 minutes
and I feel the 8 are strong so there wasn’t a need to do more and maybe taint
what we had.
Kirk: You look at some
records man, some of the old Sabbath records, I mean
great records, there will be 2 little segue ways and really only 6 to 7 real
songs but they are all killers.
SL: Each tune is amazing and 0 fluff. In terms of
your guitar playing, for someone like me that has been listening for some time
now, it feels like your riffs have a really lyrical and melodic quality to
them, is that something that has just come to you after playing for so long?
Kirk: Yea, I mean it was kind of a conscious decision
too, I mean you know in the beginning of Crowbar, the whole idea
was just to be, it was all about Heavy. I would say, “We can’t do this, it is not heavy enough. You know it has too much
melody, not heavy enough.” I started re-thinking things, we are in the year
27 now and I do think that, you know listening to the Sabbath
riffs, they are heavy of course but there is an awful lot of melody to them.
The same thing with Type O Negative, which
is one of my favorite bands or even Carnivore, you know,
there is melody, a song like “Race War”,
the choruses are melodic , I just started getting more and more to where the
riffs are getting more melodic.
I
think as I am getting older and it is not by accident you know, it can still be
heavy as all fuck and be melodic. Really it has been my thought process for a
while to really write great songs and have them be super heavy. That is the
bottom line as long as sonically it is heavy, you know a band like Type O, they have a lot of dynamics and pretty melodic
parts, some piano and what not, but sonically when you hear the band they are
heavy. To a degree that is what we are going for. I am not as good a vocalist
as Pete Steele as he is one of my favorite but still I have learned from over
the years singing to have more melody in the vocals as well. Certain songs man,
if it is a real fast, upbeat hardcore tune, of course you do not need melody,
it’s all about aggression. But if you have a slower more melodic song with
riffs and everything, you gotta look back on, what would Ozzy, Dio or Glenn
Hughes, Ian Gillian, what would they sing over this? Not that I can sing like
these guys for god’s sake, but it’s my version.
SL: Yeah, last time we spoke I was saying that
lyrically and vocally it is much more melodic and you are hitting a lot more
notes. There seems to be more of an articulate approach and the meshing of the
guitar with it is like sitting in front of a bull dozer and getting fucking ran
over, but in a really good way.
Kirk:
I like that analysis.
SL: The other thing I was thinking while watching
live performances and a lot of bands won’t do this, but your set is one that
gradually gains so much momentum and becomes so kinetic that by the 5th
tune the crowd is actually pogoing. Do you guys run different set lists or do
you have one and then try and hammer it out and go balls out each night with
it?
Kirk: It depends, when
we are headlining, technically we have as much time as we want, we usually play
about an hour and 15 minutes, but if you have 3 to 4 bands on the bill, it is
different. We get people asking why we didn’t play this or that song and I have
to remind people we have 10 albums that we have to pick from and now will be
11. We have over 100 songs to choose from, and we have to pick, say 15 songs
out of 100 and really some songs will kind of surprise you.
The
thing is, when you are a new band, say when Crowbar
did “Obedience Thru Suffering”, in
order to play a set we had to play the whole fucking record if we headlined
because we only had 10 songs and the same thing with Crowbar, “Crowba”r, it is not a very long record
so you pick the majority from that and we would do 2 or 3 off of “Obedience”, but as you continue to grow
and move into your career, we are not going to get a chance to play these songs
live before we go into the studio. It’s kind of a situation where you say, okay
guys which ones do you want to try and
obviously you will want to try this one and this one, some of them surprise
you and they end up being great and come
across great live.
The
thing is we will try and throw one out there and sometimes they won’t stick. So
you know, maybe the song wasn’t made to be played live. I feel confident we can
pretty much play anything we want but some just do not work but the ones that
surprise you, boom, they just click. Also, you fall into a situation where there
are certain songs we feel we have to play. Not that we have any hits so to
speak but there are certain songs that we just feel like we have to play in
order to make the crowd, you know the fans happy. That limits you know the
other songs we choose from. Say we have 4 or 5 we play every show and if we are
on a support slot we only have 45 minutes so we only get to play 9 songs so
that only gives us another 4 or 5 to choose from. That becomes an issue too.
SL: Yea, you have to play your “Don’t Stop
Believing” or people will get perturbed with you.
Kirk: Well our version
of that.
SL: One of things that is impressive live is that
the guitars and bass, sonically are very clear but it is all lead by a
spectacular back beat. The drums are propelling but they have such a nice
groove and when the 4 of you are on, after 27 years, you all are tighter than
ever, can you describe the elation of that?
Kirk: For me, playing
with Tommy for 12 years now, it is amazing how tight of a drummer he is and how
serious, as a drummer he is a drummers drummer, a musicians musician. He does
his homework, he is so crazy as far as, I don’t mean crazy but he is such a perfectionist.
Even with the songs now, he will ask if this beat is a fit or another and I
will say to him, whatever you prefer. We will make bass and guitar fit, don’t
worry, you do your thing when we get in the studio.
Because
he is such a perfectionist about the littlest things and is really hard on
himself when he even makes the littlest mistake, which is very rare, he is just
is as solid as they come. I have had the great pleasure to play with, really
the one thing I have always played with are guys that groove. I mean, other
than 2 records, “Sonic Excess…” that
Tony Costanza played on and “Equilibrium”,
Sid Montz played on that, it has either been Craig Nunenmaher Jimmy Bower or
Tommy Buckley. It has been so fantastic to have such great drummers to lay the
backbeat. I mean that is the great thing dude. The way I think about is, you
don’t have to have the greatest guitar player or bass player if the songs are
there, the foundation has to be the drumming, the beat the rhythm, the groove
and same thing with the vocals. I get a demo basically every night on tour and
Robin and I will listen to it and by no means is this any disrespect to anyone
at all but when I am listening to a CD and the music is great and the vocals
come on and I can’t understand a thing they are saying, it is just screaming,
baw wow wow, maybe am I just too old, you know that is the other part, you are
only as strong as your weakest link.
Even
take a guy like you would say he is not a great vocalist, take a guy like Tom
Araya for instance, his style of course, he is not a Rob Halford but he also
isn’t trying to be. Goddammit, for Slayer it is perfect.
He is amazing. You can hear every fucking word that Tom says. The emotion, the
passion, the style, that is the voice of Slayer. That is the
thing where sometimes with the backbeat, I mean a band like Slayer, you cannot mess with it; it is so fantastic, just
using them as an example. Even Phil Anselmo, when he sings in his hardest
stuff, it may not have melody to it, say on his solo, “Philip H..”, you can understand every word even though there is no
melody to it. That is good and is okay,
just my opinion, but if I can understand the words and the aggression and all
that, of course that is fine, but sometimes it is just screaming and I can’t
understand it, for me and especially if you have a band that has great music
that is just not my style, and just my opinion and we all know what they say
about opinions. In the big picture it doesn’t make any difference but I just
don’t enjoy it when I can’t understand the lyrics.
SL: I am of the same ilk too. If it is something
that I feel I am getting barked at, it is not really up my alley. Or if I feel
like I am getting yelled at, fuck it, I can get yelled at work so why in the
sweet fuck do I need to listen to that. So you have the writing and the album
that will be out, are you guys doing any festivals this summer?
Kirk: We are going to be
doing a lot. We have booked starting the 28th of April, we start in
the Netherlands, then Desertfest in the UK and then Desertfest in Berlin. We
will probably be on some open air stuff later in the summer. We are starting
off basically a month long tour of Europe, the UK and Scandanavia. Also up in Sweden
which will; be fantastic. I think it is indoor shows and festivals but we all
love the old open air, always a fantastic experience, festivals like Bloodstock
or Hellfest, I mean with Hellfest between Down and Crowbar I probably have played it 5 times now. It is an
amazing feeling to be in front of 50- 60 thousand people, so we look forward to
that. Most of that stuff doesn’t start until June, July and August. As of now
we are pretty solid for this first tour. I think we will be home around the end
of May, take a few weeks off and then get back out there.
SL: So you have the festivals coming up, when you
guys are doing the open air and club tours, do you like to go out with another
band for a tour?
Kirk: It depends, on a
lot of these shows it is Crowbar and Trouble. They are one of my favorite bands of all time so I
am very excited about that. Normally if it is a lot of festivals, it is really
tough during festival seasons because every weekend the festivals are packed no
matter where you play, so the Monday, Tuesday, Weds, Thursday are tough at the
clubs you know, even when I was with Down and we were doing
really well, we played Friday, Sat and Sunday and Tuesday Weds it was still
difficult during Festival season to play clubs, but you gotta do it, I mean
only the big bands can afford to fly in and go home after the weekend, we can’t
afford that, we gotta play every night.
SL: As the songwriting is getting easier and the
band has never been tighter, do you enjoy it more as you are more knowledgeable
and life is different. Is it more fun to get up and play and know you love it
but there are people that revere you and it must be amazing giving that feeling
back to the fans, especially since the music is doing the talking?
Kirk: Honestly, people
would say, you must be sick of touring now, the way we do it, with Robin
traveling with me and touring managing and selling merch and working with me,
it is really a situation where I really like it a lot more now than I did a few
years ago, let’s put it that way. A lot more now than I did 5 years ago. It is
nice for me in Crowbar to be my own boss. I can dictate
when we play, where we play to a certain extent so I really enjoy it more than
ever. I know that the desire, that hunger is still there, and every night when
I hit the stage I am just as excited now as I was when I was 18 years old. I am
50 now and the thing with the writing, Robin will be talking to me and she will
be like, Hello, and I will be like, “I
am sorry babe, I was going over this riff in my head.” So I am totally
focused on the writing and it is an awesome feeling at my age to enjoy it and
to be able to be in top form is a great thing.
SL: Crowbar
appears to be family oriented, is that one of the reasons why it is so
enjoyable for you now and why the music seems to be so flowing out of you?
Kirk: The focus, it is more family oriented, Tommy
is married, Jeff is married now and has a step daughter. Matt is single but his
dad jumped on with us in Gainesville, Florida and stayed with Matt through the
holidays. My step son this summer flew out with a couple of friends out to California
and he rode with us for 7-8 days to see what it was kind of like. He wasn’t old
enough to get into all the gigs but could see what it is like on the road. It
is good as it kind of breaks things up and it is a great system we got and
really works well.
SL: It seems like every night you guys are having
fun. Some bands you watch, it appears some guys kind of mail it in. Whereas
with Crowbar, as you
guys go, you get stronger and stronger. So that is obviously a testament to
what you all are doing is correct and really for the right reason, and feeding
the fire inside.
Kirk: Thank you so much,
really appreciate that,
SL: I know you are using the Ibanez Destroyer and the Randall, how much of a
difference do the Fishman
pickups make as your tone is really staying the same since you switched over to
them.
Kirk: Ken Soucy from Unearth
is the artist rep, in fact I am looking at a box in front of me right now that
I have to put in my Sunburst because I have noticed, even though I grew up on Duncan Distortion and have used through most of my career, then
the EMG’s for a while, then I got away from the
active, the Fishman, the biggest thing I have noticed,
when I am overseas and I am not using the Randall but a JCM 800, which is a great amp of course but it is a big
difference when I use the Fishman as opposed to
the passive. You know I would have a DiMarzio Tone Zone in
one and a Duncan Distortion in the other, through my Randall rigs it sounds great through those but when I am
using the Marshall it doesn’t sound nearly as good
unless I am using the Fishman pickups. So
they do make a big difference. I know how to do a few things but I am going to
have to drop the guitar off with my guy that does all my setups and other work.
SL: The pickups definitely are your sound which is
great.
Kirk: Yea, especially
when doing fly in dates the sound really works with the Fishmans.
SL: Are you
someone that enjoys being able to have the same mic set up on your rigs live
and in the studio? Also, are you pretty easy when it comes to vocal mics?
Kirk: Yea, a Shure 57 and a Seinheiser on the
guitar cab works live and in the studio. Singing live, I use a Shure SM 58, which is pretty industry standard. Of course,
in the studio it is different but live I sing really loud as I am not doing
anything soft, it is more about the delivery. I am not picky or a Diva in
anyway. Most of the time the monitors do not even work. So I have learned to do
with it. That is why Europe is good, they have proper PA’s and monitors and great
Engineers. Not to say we do not have great engineers here, but sometime you
might get a speed freak that doesn’t know what is going on and has been up for
4 days, whatever, you gotta deal with all of it and make it work.
SL: Do you like playing different place or as long
as you are on stage you are happy?
Kirk: As long as I am on
stage I am a happy bastard.
SL: When do you foresee the album coming out?
Kirk: I would guess early summer; hope to have it
wrapped up by the end of March at the latest. I would think probably towards
the end of June.
SL: When do you come up with the title for the
album?
Kirk: That is usually
the last thing we come up with. Lyrics, song titles, or sometimes I will be
watching tv and something will come up and moves me. More often will be after
thinking about the song titles.
SL: Will you be recording at the same studio?
Kirk: Literally we practice in the same building as
we record and it is totally comfortable, great vibe and is only about 10
minutes from my house. Dwayne Simoneau is the engineer and will mix it as well,
he has continued to get better, top notch professional and has the best of
everything. Has a killer day job and the studio thing is a labor of love for
him. What he makes in the studio goes back in the studio. Every time I pop in
he has 20 new things going on. He has all these killer new tube mics and
building his own cables. It is really a great studio and a great vibe. This
will be the third record with him in the last 5 years. Definitely that is our
spot.
SL: Are you someone that is hands off in the studio
or do you like to have a say in the mix and the mastering?
Kirk: Mastering I am not worried about. Basically we
have the guy that Mastered the album tells us to come back in 5-6 hours. There
is wall to wall Platinum albums all over the studio, I mean the guy worked with
Prince. I mean he
will tell us to check out a few bars, we saw some of the homes of the movie
stars type shit or whatever. Had some lunch and a few beers, came back and he
was like, here is your record and it sounded amazing. As far as mixing, I will
be more hands on as the last 2 were mixed elsewhere. We just traded files back
and forth. I would say too much delay on the vocal, guitars have to go up. I think
it will be nicer this way.
SL: So pretty much sky is the limit for you guys.
Kirk: I hope so man.
SL: In terms of guitar playing, vocally, it really
transcends time and space and everything you guys are doing keeps getting
better and better.
Kirk: Thank you so much.
SL: Thank you so much for taking the time and doing
what you do and doing it well. Anything you would like to say to the fans.
Kirk: Thank you fans so much, check out the Facebook page and we are going to start up
something, Robin and I grew up in an era of fan clubs, I was in the Kiss Army,
Charlies Angels, Farah Fawcett Fan Club, whatever. So we came up with what I
think is a great package, you check on the Crowbar Facebook
page and it is really something extra for the fans. We grew up liking the idea
and Robin will be doing most of the work and most of the comments have been
overwhelmingly positive. A few assholes, but this is for the fans, if you do
not want to be part of it, you do not have too. So far it is off to a great
start as it was put up Thursday night.
SL: Usually the guys complaining are the ones that
live in their parent’s basement watching anime all day. They can go fuck
themselves.
Kirk: You know, I spoke
with my publicist and he was like, “Kirk,
anything you write, you are never gonna win.” I could write on Facebook
that I am out to eat with my beautiful wife and daughter and step-son and
someone will comment, “Shouldn’t you be
fucking home writing riffs for the new record.” So you are never gonna win.
So you laugh it off and thank the positive. Again thank you so much for the Crowbar fans.
Fans of Crowbar,
get ready for what seems like an album that will be putting a boot in the ass
of the rock world. Heavy with a melodic focus on songs that let the groove shake
and bake like a delicious gumbo just waiting to be devoured at the perfect
moment.
Music is obviously a huge part of
Kirk’s existence but through all of his dialogue, everything comes back to a
relationship that has seemed to spark a new existence in this Tonal Commanders
life. It is the relationship with Robin that has truly taken his legendary
style and heavy regime to a better state and main.
Truth be told, Kirk is one bad
motherfucker on stage and has earned every minute and note of it. He has given
every ounce of sweat to the music and fans and he has been given a wonderful
gift in return, a soul mate that is joining him in this eternal life of
musicality.
It was a pure joy being able to
converse with this Iconic musician and an even better person. I am more excited
to play music and extend the heavy with the melody of ones refrain.
Thank you Kirk for all that you and Crowbar have done and certainly will do.
Eat a peach,
The End
Band info: facebook
